Clark Newby is highly regarded marketing and alliance executive and Silicon Valley veteran. Clark has worked for leading providers like Silicon Graphics, Mercury Interactive, Workday, SnapLogic, and Sage Intacct. Clarks shares his thoughts with Greg on all the changes that are taking place in B2B marketing and sales due to the pandemic, but more importantly, what stays with us, after the pandemic is over! He stresses the importance of focus - having a tighter message that resonates right away. People simply don’t have time to digitally linger on your site, so you need to make things convenient - make it easier for the buyer to buy! You need to make your digital channel and touch points meaningful, useful, and worthwhile.
Prior to the pandemic, SaaS providers were struggling to find answers to rising CAC costs and falling prospect engagement. Getting prospects to respond much less come to a meeting was getting harder and harder. With the pandemic, prospects are juggling so much more than work, they do not have the patience for the typical sales process. And they do not have the time to forage through every vendors content to assess alignment and fit. So SaaS providers need to:
1. Build owned digital channels (e.g. website) that offer prospects a way to get answers and find information quickly and without friction.
2. Find their way into earned digital channels like crowd-sourced review sites by creating positive experiences throughout the customer journey - marketing, sales, implementation, and support, that customers want to share.
Since marketing is the start of the journey, less emphasis should be placed on getting names or MQLs and more effort should be put into creating positive experiences that respect people's limited time.
Connect:
Connect with Clark on LinkedIn and make sure to join his session at RevTech on January 27th!
Connect with Greg on LinkedIn and check out Omedym’s website and their LinkedIn and Twitter
Greg Dickinson: Clark, welcome to the convenience economy podcast as a way of getting started, tell my audience about yourself?
Clark Newby: Well, sure, well, first of all, thanks for having me, this is great to get the opportunity to talk about how things are shifting. And they're shifting tectonically right now. But I've been leading software marketing organizations for 25 years now. Mostly b2b, you know, for the last 15 years or so SaaS software as a service companies, but you know, creating categories, opening up markets driving outcomes for, for customers, for the companies, for investors. And that's included great brands, like mercury, interactive, and workday, most recently in tech, which we sold the sage about three years ago. And since then, I've been advising and consulting with investors and CEOs and their teams with high growth technology companies on go to market strategy and execution. So this concept of the convenience economy really resonates with me, I've really, I've lived a lot of it, as it's grown, we've lived through this year, where these, these shifts have really accelerated a lot of the transit guys like you and I have been working around. So it's great to be here to chat and compare notes.
Greg Dickinson: Man, I'm thankful because it's great for your audience to hear from a from an expert, you've been with some, you know, some great companies, it's not even with a, you know, a couple, you know, one person shops, right. So, you know, we, you and I talked a while back and this, you know, the idea that convenience economy kind of registered with each other, and, you know, and and I, you know, we we talk about a lot and Omdeym, about the fact that you know, people right are now you know, what do you call it the Amazon effect of the shop at home effect, or just this digital world where you're carrying a mainframe around in your hand, you expect things to be convenient, and it's a lot more important than perhaps price, right? Or perhaps other things that's really important. So, you know, as a CMO, right, you know, you've been at it a while, you know, kind of, give me the, the, your view of where we are today. And, you know, in regards to the convenience economy from from a CMOS perspective, right, because I think marketing sits, you know, at that early, early, early stage of a business, right sales way down customer support, etc, they still feel those changes, too. But boy, cmo, man, if you're not on your guard, and not looking at trends, trends and changes, I gotta believe you're messing up, right? Because you're, you're, you're out there in front lines first. So give me that your perspective of what you've seen, and, and then we'll we'll dive into a few of those topics that you bring up and help my audience to understand from the CMO perspective.
Clark Newby: Sure, absolutely. Well, I think first of all, it's, it's impossible to talk about any of this right now, without talking about the pandemic, and the impact that it's had on buying and selling in our day to day lives. Right. So hopefully, we're will begin to come out of all of this. But, you know, the question is what stays with us, right? And what is changed? That won't unchange? We're talking about this in our previous conversation, right? So you know, my belief is that COVID is accelerated and deepened these evolutions in our social, the way we interact socially, the way we sell the technology trends, and these are things we've been nurturing and grappling with for years. But, you know, I think that the underlying thing is, what I've seen in working with companies the last year is that COVID has driven focus in the way that you're going to have to communicate with your prospects, your customers, right? And all your communication and all your selling. I mean, it's so difficult for any of us to hold attention these days compared to the normal world. Right. And that includes the organizations that we're selling to, right. And I think that's had impact at a strategic level. Meaning like, Oh, you guys like you and I old enough to quote Geoffrey Moore, right. Cournot context, what's like, everything has been focused down for these companies. Yes. And all these kind of exploratory, investigative, like a slush fund, you know, I'll buy a couple of things and see how they work. That stuff has all been washed away in the hurricane or this pandemic, right? So it's, it's survival instincts, right? which then leads on the planning and the organs operational levels, there's just fewer projects. Right. And and, and that means we have less time to get at fewer consideration cycles with our prospects, right? Yeah, they're just they just don't have time for the stuff. And even when they do their, you know, their Lieutenant that they would normally Have a look at this stuff has got to, you know, watch their kid from two to four in the afternoon and I you know, I can't get on the look. So all of that the idea of the convenience economy where it's self serve you meeting you were helping the buyer by where they are when they are has just been hugely imposed upon us. Yeah, I think Yeah.
Greg Dickinson: And I think you know, worth the dialogue here, you know, Clark is that I think Change is hard, right? As you well know, people are creatures of habit, but I think what's what what the pandemic did, is it accelerate it didn't, you know, yes, it created new things that we have to deal with, but but there were some things happening in b2b, especially around this idea of a buyer doing more on their own and hey, I really don't want to opt in, I want things on demand when I when it's convenient for me. And, you know, the less friction you have the better for me from a buying process. That's why I buy cars with carvana. Now instead of going to a car lot, that's why order all my meals pre packaged and, and pre portioned. So it's easy for me to cook my meals. I think all that was happening, but boy, it really accelerated. Right. Yeah. And, and and i think that brought it out to the forefront to your point of and then, you know, an interesting thread you just brought up is used to be decision maker and buying right, you know, you You know, I've been at this for 25 years. So if you find a decision maker could you know, understand what that person was, what was important to them, meet those needs boom decision made nowadays, consensus buying. And now that consensus team, it's really big, right, 5, 10, 15 people they are not in office, they're spread out all over the country. And to your point, how do you get their attention? And how do you even know they exist? Because you don't get to meet them all anymore?
Clark Newby: Right. And you have to find the right channels and touch points to facilitate their the self driven purchasing. Right? I mean, the, the framework still applies, right, you know, how are you going to educate? You know, how are you going to get them to consideration and evaluation, right, but But what are the either the existing channels that you're going to tweak or the new channels that now people are digesting in a way that they may not have even considered before that you can activate? I mean, think about it, working from home, and living on zoom has catalyzed a lot more creativity here. Right. And one thing, so we talked about
Greg Dickinson: it both directions, by the way.
Clark Newby: Exactly. Well, right. Yeah. I mean, it's funny, we go back and early pandemic, like in the spring, early summer, right? Where I'm getting, you're getting used to working from home and everything and these flexible hours. And one of the things I was doing was in your you can't go out anywhere we were in Northern California, we're in lockdown. So time to clean out a closet or to right. And I had like magazines and stuff from like the turn of the century. Now we say turn of the century, it means right? Yes, right year 2000.
Greg Dickinson: do a good newspaper ad
Clark Newby: There was a front there was one, MIT whatever Sloane was calling their technology journal at the time. But the cover story was about working from home and distance work is like Yeah, but you know, you give up so much. It just doesn't. It's just never gonna work. Emptying out my closet during work from home career. And so. Yeah, so anyway, so people are thinking a lot differently than then they have about some of these things. But yeah, about driving digital experience for years. But, you know, like, look at video, right? I mean, we all know that so many, there's so many additional saying like, if you're a salesperson, and you can be in the room with that prospect and read that room and read the signals, all that stuff, you know, it's not perfect. It's so much more difficult with zoom. But I think video is a place that's, that's really opened up that you know, people people are much more facile and comfortable with it. Yeah, video chat, even just, you know, the work of a marketing organization or the sales development or sales team, right? Just to build that portfolio balance that portfolio of how you can meet the buyer where they are.
Greg Dickinson: Yeah, that's key to what you're saying. Yeah, I love that you what you said is that, you know, that the the buyer still has a job, they had a job forever, they have to go through certain certain things they have to do jobs to be done, if you will, and before they can buy, and it's your job, right as marketing, so to help them to find their answers to their questions, wherever they are in that buyers journey, But to your point, right, and you can't sit back and wait for them to call you. Because they're not going to for a long period of time, right could be 30% 60% 80% of the sales cycle. They're out doing their self service digital, expiration. And I think what you know, what companies are failing to realize is that you got to help that buyer, do that help them to get the information they want, help them to, you know, have a digital channel that maybe it's recorded video, maybe it's, you know more, you know, web content, maybe it's a blog, right, that has a lot more, you know, other than information, because they're going to do it. And if you don't help them and accommodate that behavior, you're the one that's waiting, and they're not gonna call you at all, I mean, the garden research says, we get 6% of the buyers time, if they're looking at three vendors, so they don't want to have influence, you better do it digitally. And digitally, to me doesn't mean Facebook and Twitter, it means providing a place where, you know, people have questions they get they get answers. And I think what you said is meaning where they are, and if they're not engaged with you yet, you have to do it in a digital way, a channel way, a portal way to help them and accommodate them. And that's, that's what you're referring to?
Clark Newby: Yep, yep. or move upstream and find the other places that they are, you know, I'm I'm a huge believer, and I think it's become even more critical through this last year or so we've talked mostly about kind of owned channels, right? Like you, they come get to them to our website, so we can tell our stories, better ways. But, you know, you cannot forget about earned channels, and in classic times, I kind of get some PR, etc. But, you know, one thing that I'm a big believer in that I don't see companies using as often as I would think, are these product review sites, right? I mean, like, particularly selling to the enterprise back in the day, these enterprises would scratch out a huge check to Gartner or Forrester or somebody, and then say, so come in and tell me like which CRM system I should be using or ERP, or you know, name, name, your TLA, three letter acronym. That's all been disintermediated, right? by people like jeetu, or capterra. Yeah. And so I have, I've just, we put a big focus on this. And in tech, being the customer satisfaction, leader, I mean, the great brands today. You know, we talked about the convenience economy, you talked about comparisons between kind of b2c and b2b, the great b2b brands today have fan basis, even for stuff that you'd think like 10 years ago, like fan base for a computer system to keep track of what people are. But
Greg Dickinson: This fan base is digital trust, right? Think about your personal life, the person, the business, whoever that helps you understand, you know, the right kind of flowers, the plant or the the maintenance on your car, or what appliances to buy, they provide you with free answers to your questions when the day comes. when the day comes, that you're going to buy those flowers or buy those shrubs or buy that a punch, you go there first. Why? Because they have established digital trust. So this, you know, people talk about this idea of community. And that's what you're talking about this fan base, but what it really is, is, hey, not no one's gonna come to your dealership anymore to ask you can you walk me through the safety features in car they're gonna do on their own, but give them that data. And then when the day comes around to buy them and come to you the last mile of the sale, excellent analogy you're talking about there is that is that unoriginal? That fan base, and I think that's where a lot of businesses fail to, you know, they, they want to control the cycle, right? And they want to play the old game of, hey, Clark, you're asked me for this, I need something from you first, that that's all gone. Like, you know, oh, yeah, you know that that's just not the way people behave anymore. You better be open and then walk through that. So that's it. Another great point of that of that idea of the of the fan base. And I think you're right, I mean, you know, we I read articles that say that the average buyer can go to 11, places for information, right? You mentioned G2, or capture hub on Glassdoor knowing everything about your company, your culture, right, going to a, you know, to financial site, understanding everything about your finances, right? I mean, that the data is not held by the Corporation anymore, it's everywhere. And you need to you need to embrace that,
Clark Newby: Then you make a great point there, which is all data is not created equal to right. So where can they get that, that data, they're going to get glass they're going to get data about your culture and the inside your four walls, from people that are inside those four walls, right? They're going to get the financial information from the people that have access or have done the research there. And I think another huge leg of this, and some of it comes through the product review sites, but in general, the idea of customer success stories, right, we always say, you know, you know, use for both educating and then objection handling, you know, give them customer stories, give them customer stories, but that you're particularly I think, in a world that's been so turned upside down like it has in the last year and in the stakes have been cranked up so much on these companies, everybody Head to shrink their plan, everybody's had to refocus everything. folks want to hear specifically about the outcomes they can expect, and see that you're aligned to delivering those for them. And so I think that kind of the more traditional Customer Success story, you're going to see, and this part of this is unlocked by these different channels like social media, etc. But I just think the testimonial, and that interpersonal sort of connection, now it has to be a story that's applicable to them. I mean, you can't sell, you know, you can't sell the manufacturer with a story from, you know, a fast food chain or something or bank, but, but I just think all of these channels, like you're saying, you know, they, they're going to go out and find across all these channels, both the channel and the signal and the source all matter, as their education. So yeah, we, and we get obviously, you know,
Greg Dickinson: This isn't about Omedym, right. But at the end of the day, right, we're talking about, we're using searchable video as a way to let that buyer get their hands on your product earlier in the buying cycle, because to your point, right, they want validation, they want authenticity, they want to understand they want to understand if I was using this software, how would it work, right? And I'm not going to read a 30 page white paper on how to how workflow works in our application. Okay, here's how analytics work, they want to feel it because they're gonna be using it, they buy your product. And I think that's another, you know, kind of this fan base idea, this community of, let's move the product for some companies heck product, lead growth is working great, right trials is it. But you know, it took 15, 20 years for SAS to migrate to every business, right? It's not going to probably grow, it's not gonna happen. Tomorrow, you go, Hey, we're going to be a profit growth company, and give trials and premiums that not all software is geared to be that way. But man, using video or searchable videos, or online demos, and automation, allows that prospect to engage in that process sooner and get some of those questions answered. To your point right from the source, not from someone you know, and guess what you'd prefer to do it that way? Then hearing it from john, who heard it from Mary, who heard it from Paul? Yeah. All right.
Clark Newby: Yeah. Like anything in your life. Right? Yeah. Like any people always talk about, you know, how consumerization has impacted the buying cycle? And that, that probably started I guess, with compute consumer, sorry, the experience, you know, I Why can't Why is this software so complicated? And I'm at home and I'm on, you know, Facebook, or Amazon or something? Right? This is so and then it became about the e commerce the buying part, why is this so difficult to buy pencils, and in office supplies? In my office when I can do it at home? on a website? And now it's come to these? The communication, I think, platforms, and how people like, why can't I? Why can I figure out? Why can I find a local astronomy club or whatever, and everything that's going on there, but when I'm trying to buy something for my, when I'm trying to get people's advice on a b2b purchase, that it's some like, I have to go to them, or you know, the mountain top and I've got to pay all my gold and I've got to, you know, then probably get an answer that I know is already jimmied around because somebody's trying to sell me something. You know, what you guys are doing is, is I think really important about taking, taking away those barriers so that people can in their own context. You know, we always talk about discovery calls, right, you know, sales enablement to help our SDR teams do discovery calls and you're stabbing around trying to find you know, pain, and all this if they know their pain, okay? Like, if you if you give them a give them a library for them to come look up their problems, you know, that's easily accessible, and they can do in their context, they bring the pain with them, and you can have a you can get to much more meaningful conversation.
Greg Dickinson: Listen, I talk customer all the time, right? One of the one of the reasons that Omedym is so successful is that A you're moving that friction B you're letting that buyer you know, self raised not just raise your hand but wave your hand it's very similar to why do you think that they make you scan your grocery cards, you know, card into the grocery store? Because I want to know what you're doing. They want to know what you're buying they want to know your patterns. Well. That's the same thing with a having a portal which the buyer initiate which questions which topics which videos they watch, how long do they watch you also they invite, right? And by the way, they do it? They do it before nine after six and on weekends. Why did you know that right? And you're not even around the office when they're doing their exploration and you know, and fact finding and so forth. So hey, enough of that. I got a few more minutes I want to switch gears to I want to I want to get I heard a funny story. Actually. I don't think it's funny. So I shouldn't say that. But I was on the phone with somebody. I'm not gonna tell you who but I was talking about Omedym, right, and how we can search across you know, they had like 60, 70, 80, 80 webinars, I'm like, gosh, how does anyone find anything? And the marketing person said the most strangest thing ever. He said, Greg, yeah, I understand you can help them find the answers to the questions in the right section of the webinar. But we don't really care about that, because we really don't care if they watch them or not all we care about is that they give us their email. So we get that MQL. And, and Clark. I almost like, like, it's a prospect of mine. I almost said, Are you kidding me? Like? What What do you know, as a CMO that's run major organizations, that's, you know, great. What, what's your thinking? There's that old school thinking that's changing, because I know you have this idea about sales and marketing getting, you know, closer aligned. So let's, let's lump those two things together. And let me think my perspective on that I just was,
Clark Newby: So many so many thoughts, so many thoughts, but Well, I think so my first thought is the idea of the bait to get the email. Right. I there's so I think that is I think it's old school. I think that it's, I mean, how many calls a day do I get on this freaking smartphone? Right? That I know, isn't anybody calling me? They're just trying to figure out if I've got a live phone number, if I'm gonna pick up, yep. And they're gonna sell that to somebody, that's what their business is? Not, you know, and so I just think that the I think that in a world that's, that's ever more interconnected in purchase processes that are ever more buyer driven authenticity, and, and making sure that you're delivering value at each stage of the conversation is really important. So hopefully, your conversation was with somebody that, you know, it's kind of balancing that with the hard cold facts of they're trying to move things through a pipeline, but but it's just, you know, that kind of baiting, that's, that's inside out, right. Yeah. Suppose the outside in right. And so I think so philosophically, that's the first thing that gives me pause. But the second thing, and equally, maybe more important is the the almighty MQL. Right. So I am a huge fan. Look, I, I want metrics, even for a marketing organization that have a currency sign in front of them, right? An MQL is a leading indicator of something that might become an opportunity. But at the end of the day, the only reason the marketing organization exists, right, is to help the organization, deliver value and do deals, so they can keep delivering value and doing more deals. Right. And so there's always, you know, in my career, if you think about the step of, you know, marketing at the top of the funnel awareness, getting leads, and then you give that to some sort of a sales development team, they qualify those leads, maybe they do some outbound work as well. So then you can get to opportunities that your salespeople your more expensive salespeople are actually working on to close a deal, right? I I always want my marketing organizations responsible for pipeline and opportunity generation. So I which means oftentimes, I've managed sales development teams, as well as the classical marketing teams, not always. But if you're not, you've got to have tightly aligned shared metrics between the two that are focused on what really turns into opportunity for the organization you know, but killing your MQL number and sales guys not getting, you know, not getting to club is not that's not success. Yeah. For the organization. Yeah.
Greg Dickinson: Yeah. But that's so we know, for a long time, you know, that the best quote I've ever heard in my life was a sales manager that worked for me. And I was harping on a little bit on activities. And he was, uh, you know, he was much more experienced to me, he said, Greg, you teach something right now, never confuse activity with progress. Right? And that's what you're saying, right? Is that just because you know, 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s of MQL's, but if they're not progressing through, then that's just a whole bunch of smokescreen. Right. The other day, you turn the treadmill off your in the same spot.
Clark Newby: And they're things that's right. And so that activity and results, right, that's, I think that's an important, Yin and Yang, right? Because even if you think about a sales development team, like you also don't want just, you know, somebody once they've nailed their number, then it's like, I don't have to do anything else. Right? It's part of the the motion itself, right? is part of being in play, being ready being present in the market. So you need an activity level as well. That you just can't get confused about what that's delivering for you like you say activity. We are. Our phrase, back in mercury days was always no results. Results does not equal, no results plus excuses. You gotta get results, right? Yeah. But you also can't get results if you're not, if you're not learning, and you're not active, and you're not engaged. So you kind of need to manage, I think,
Greg Dickinson: yeah, I'd say activities are good, but don't confuse it too, right. So, hey, last kind of, we've been bouncing around on this, but I would think that there's, there's lots of articles written now and lots of press and lots of ideas that hey, in the end, you know, SaaS is under an enormous amount of pressure cap costs are way up, willingness to pay is down. So it's much more expensive to be in the SaaS business. And we're, you know, companies are now starting to say, Hey, you know, instead of what we just talked about marketing being Group A, or department A and sales being department of group, you know, B, let's kind of, let's align them better, let's put them to, you know, not necessarily together, but let's align them. So they both have those shared goals, based on what you said, with a, you know, with the currency sign. I'm, I'm thinking you're a believer in that.
Clark Newby: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, well, and I would take it further, I think, within the SaaS world, in particular, the third vertex on that triangle, it's got to be customer success, right? Because you're, you know, it's a subscription, you have to earn it back. Now, you may sign a multi year agreement or something, but you've got to earn that business back, every, whatever period of time in contract period, right? And if you're going to grow, yeah, you also have to have your customers have to be able to digest all the new capability and features everything that you're adding into the product, right? It's not, you know, again, we're old enough to remember where you know, you could a hotshot sales guy could close the deal, and you all peel out, and you leave the you know, you leave Accenture or somebody to implement it. It's Right, right. And you're watching learning, and you're on to the next one, right? Yep. Yeah, all none of that is true now, right now. So I think that not only to sales and marketing, you have to be aligned in the year on this, you know, it's kind of it's a bit of a trend, it's, it's, it's continuity, right. Now, that gives you predictability, which helps your valuation and all the rest, but it's a bit of a treadmill, and that treadmill has to fit then then to not only how things get implemented, and in, which isn't a one time Big Bang anymore, but you know, at each point release of the product, and then making sure that you're bringing those Customer Success back around, first of all, the front of the process where you're able to share these stories that we talked about the value that you get on this stuff, but also that you are it's a relate it's a capital R relationship, right? with your customers. It's not a transactional relationship anymore.
Greg Dickinson: Yeah, no, I mean, listen, I you're preaching the choir, I mean, Omedym is, is you know all about this idea that, you know, the, from, from suspect to prospect to, you know, opportunity to customer to, now they're a customer, they still have a need to learn, they still have questions that need to be answered. And if you no one goes to work that I've ever met, that says, boy, this can be a great day to enter a ticket like this. They go to work, because I want to get the job done. And then when your software prohibits them, because they don't understand something, gosh, why can't you provide an easy quick way for them to search and find a electronic demo or video? To get answer your question, right? And that's it's it's this flywheel effect it, it you there you want them to renew, you actually want them to look at new features and go, Wow, maybe that feature would help me Well, you can't, you know, provide one on one. You know, tutelage to every single solitary one of your customers. So how do you scale? How do you leverage and that's kind of why this cab cost is way up, because there's all this nurturing and, you know, and time that needs to be dealt with customer and a lot of people to your point you said in the first five minutes was, you know, what's that channel, where's your customer? Trust me, their head is not in a book trying to read documentation. We don't do that anymore. But you know that 68% of all searches on YouTube start with the words how to, that's where we go and want to know, how to change oil, how to how to boil rice, right? How to water a plant. least know, that's what most people do. So, you know, provide that experience your customers, so, boy, we can I'm gonna I'm gonna promise right now that we're gonna do another one of these in about three months, because I think a couple of good topics that came up and I stay in touch with you, and I think my audience would like to learn more. So thank you very much, Clark, for your time and and being on here and your professionalism. I do appreciate it.
Clark Newby: Well, again, thank you for having me. It's been great to put heads together on this stuff. I would love to continue the conversation, and I look forward to it. Take care, Greg.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai