Jeroen Corthout is Co-founder and CEO of Salesflare, a SaaS Sales CRM with 2,000 customers that has been able to stand out in a crowded space. Join Jeroen and Greg Dickinson as they discuss why it is so hard to get sales people to use CRM and what top performing sales people do every day.
Talk to just about any sales person and they do not voluntarily use their CRM. And they certainly do not find any value from it. Salesflare set out to change all that and according to their reviews on G2 they have succeeded - they are one of the top ranked and considered easiest to use. How? Instead of designing their application with the assumption that people would be forced to use it, they designed it so people would want to use it.
Salesflare created a CRM solution for sales people, not their managers, that is designed to help sales people sell and minimize data entry by automatically pulling info from places like email applications, social platforms, or website engagement. Their entire focus is on letting sales people do what they love doing - selling, and not wasting time entering data. And in the process, they use artificial intelligence to prioritize activities and ensure things don’t fall through the cracks.
As you look to compete, in this hyper-competitive SaaS environment, either as a software provider or as a salesperson, take two lessons away from Jeroen and Salesflare's success:
Connect:
Connect with Jeroen LinkedIn and learn more about Salesflare by visiting www.salesflare.com.
Connect with Greg on LinkedIn and check out Omedym’s website and their LinkedIn and Twitter
Greg Dickinson: Hey, so welcome to the convenience economy podcast, I'm going to talk about a bunch of subjects today. But before we get started, why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself and, and your and your company?
Jeroen Corthout: Yeah, so I'm a co founder and CEO of Salesfare. And Salesfare is a, it's a CRM system. And there's lots of CRM systems out there. So place it a bit better. But there's like 650, on on YouTube or something. We are a sales CRM. So if you're looking for a CRM tool to like, organize your sales and not drop that many leads and stuff, that's what you you're looking for. I mean, there's lots of other types of sort of other issues. And within that space, there's still a bit quite a big space, we focus on small and medium sized businesses, not on enterprises. And the way we differentiate ourselves from others in that space, is by basically fixing what's wrong with most other CRM's is that salespeople hate them, it's a lot of work to fill them out. They don't really help them to follow up their leads. And and what we figured seven years ago is actually that doesn't have to be the case. We were super frustrated with it ourselves. And we figured that actually we were, we were sort of filling out stuff in the CRM that actually is already available in an in another place in a digital way, like formats. And we built a system that automatically pulls the information together from your, your mailbox, from your calendar, from your phone, from email, and web tracking from company database from social media, and it sort of sits on top of all that data. It offers it to you, you can curate it. So you still have full control. And you can edit stuff if you like. But the system does most of the work for you. And that makes that you have way more data available based on which we can help you, say things like, oh, it seems like you haven't been in touch for a week with that customer maybe you want to follow up, or it seems that there is an email that goes unanswered here or this is in this state for that long, and you know, the the system can start helping you and we have stuff like email sequences or whatever, you know, no limits.
Greg Dickinson: And no spot on when you and I met a couple of months ago, right? I was really intrigued by that kind of two aspects of the fact that, you know, the CRM world that you want to cover today is one is adoption, right? Because companies are spending an inordinate amount of money on, you know, billions and billions of dollars on technology. They're, you know, if you look at what's reported, the average quote unquote, salesperson, right sales has 52 different technologies that, you know, that people are using. And and you think about that, right? I mean, that just doesn't bode well for that salesperson that knows what they want to do. And they're on the front line. So I think that talk to me a little bit about your, because that's the topic number one. And then number two we'll talk about is remote sales, right, and what you're seeing in your niche, because I think, you know, that's a pretty intriguing topic right now. But let's start off first with kind of a, you know, because you'd have a really cool perspective on adoption, I think it's cool for people to companies to know, you know, about the adoption, what salespeople are really quote unquote, using, versus what they log into every day. I think there's a difference. So go ahead lets dive in.
Jeroen Corthout: Yeah, there's a difference. Where we see that, well, I don't think it's a it's a, it's sort of a public secret. Where it goes wrong with CRM systems is not necessarily that it's not nice after I mean, some of the systems still look like it's Siebel or SAP from the past, but mostly happens in enterprises. That the thing is just that they are not very well used. And that's because of an imbalance between sort of the inputs, the efforts, the the amount of time, energy discipline, all that, that you need to bring up as a salesperson, to be able to get output. And in some systems, even the output that you get, if you do it perfectly is even small. So and it's it's, it's, it's extremely logical that people then don't use it, especially if there's like side effects like, manager looking over your shoulder to see what I do everything right, those sort of things also, but then are like the final drop. You could say, where salespeople, like, Oh, I don't feel like doing this. I mean, right, right. not helping me. They're looking over my shoulder, or whatever. Why Why would I do it? Yeah, only because they forced me. So when we started Salesfare, I did quite some customer interviews, and I heard things like, yeah, you know, I don't think the software is still going to improve. It's really the salespeople. They're lazy. You know, there's things around that you, you train them, well, they said, you make their bonus dependent on it, and then they just have to do it. I mean, just just make them do it. And then I would say like, No, I'm quite sure there's still possibilities to do something, I don't think we've reached the sum of software yet. We can automate parts, we can make things easier, we can make that things are quicker and just the software disappears more in the background instead of being done that huge thing that needs to take care of.
Greg Dickinson: But I think I think so. So one of the I agree with that, I think one of the aspects to the that people are missing is that if you, if you look at when CRM came out, right, and a lot of technologies, right, in the early 2000s, the set the seller was in total control of the sales cycle, right? They laid out the process, if you wanted to get something, you had to give something mean, all the training that everyone went through, and as you know, last 10, 15, 20 years, the buyer is now taking on more importance, and they're self serving for you know, I don't care, you can argue all day long 50% 60% 70% of the sales cycle. And what I think companies are failing to, and this is leading to your adoption is all of the technology they buy is geared towards their process, right? their sales process, their marketing process, their lead generation process, demand Gen process, and yet, there's nothing enabled for that buyer. So I think that the economy you're you're hitting on is that if if the buyer has changed, right, and that unquote, selling motion has changed, then if technology is still mirrored in that, you know, in 2005, there's going to be no adoption, right? To your point, the the metrics that you're that people are measured on we're going to train is going to be great. And you got to use this system, and then the system, if it helped them sell they would use it. I don't care, right, big brother watching you're not here. But if it's not helping themselves, they're not going to use it. I think what you're hitting on is the fact that that that your technology needs to be modernized for the modern sales cycle, the modern buyer, the modern seller, not, hey, we got a process we got to follow internally, because I need to know, you know, every morsel of information about my pipeline. You know, I'm saying I think there's a little bit of that.
Jeroen Corthout: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, there's a few things going on. Definitely. I mean, if it doesn't help them sell, they're not going to use it. If it helps them sell, but it's an enormous amount of work, they're not going to use it. If they don't know how to use it, they're not going to use it. If it if it doesn't fit the way they want to guide people to their buyers journey, you could say they're also not going to use right. So it all of these things sort of need to check off. If another another important point, a common mistake. Also, if they're a manager just imposes something on them without consulting them. They're also not going to use it, even though it might be a perfect solution for them.
Greg Dickinson: Yeah, no. And I spoke to a salesperson the other day said, Listen, you know this, this buyer is doing a lot of a lot of work on their own. And we don't have visibility into that dark funnel, we never had visibility in that journey, they're going to a lot of places, and our quote unquote, our systems, our sales systems are not integrated in line with or working with that buyer enablement process, and therefore we're dark. And so what happens is, we get them on the phone for the first time, we have no kind of data to your point earlier of what's what they've been doing in prior. So when we start to call off, they get mad at us because we're starting off at the 50,000 foot level instead of you know, you know, down a little further. So I think, you know, I talked about this the convenience economy, if a car buyer was researching car seats and miles per gallon, right, that kind of buyer mode, and you walk into dealing, the first thing you start talking about is how fast the car goes. Those two things are misaligned. Right, so I think you're hitting on is your, you're saying data, let's bring that data up in front and center to the salesperson so they can react and engage in a professional meaningful way. Yeah?
Jeroen Corthout: Yeah, that's that's definitely part of it as well. We integrate things like email and web tracking. And it's one of the reasons why we called sales flare, actually sales flare. We were like, We want to throw a flare like light into the lightbox of sales at that point, that was also the idea. So it's a bit of an abstract idea, I admit. But that's that's one of the reasons we want to do involve all kinds of tracking, which is also automated and easily flows together. So that at least if you're within a sales process, you know what people are looking at on your sides? What products are checking how long when they check the pricing? Yeah, all this kind of stuff. And even if you if you've identified them at some point, you can also go all the way back so you can see like, when is the first time to check out our website and what did they know? Yeah,
Greg Dickinson: Yeah. Yeah, this is not about Omedym here, but our that's what that's what our sales will tell us about our software is that it enables that buyer to do things on their own, but that activity is is then married back to the sales opportunity so that they can know that you're always looking at this and he invited other people And this is a time they spent right, doing X, Y, or Z. And going forward. So yeah, I think a lot I listen, I think adoption is always been a problem. But I think to your point, I think it will put a pin in this and go to the next topic is that if you don't provide value to your salesperson, they're not going to use it. Right? That's it. That's the, that's just, you know, pick anything you want. If the appliance for your kitchen doesn't provide value in creating meals, you're not going to use it, right? I mean, I, I have a food processor in my kitchen, I don't use because it's too much work, right to get it all cleaned up. And you know, it's just easier to cut stuff and go, do I cut it as good as a processor? Absolutely not. Right? No, anyway, so no, I think that's great insight from yours. And you and you, obviously, being in a competitive space, right, you see that, you know, your success is based on the fact that these other quote, unquote, you know, technology not being adopted, and yours is. So talk to me a little bit about what you're seeing around this this remote selling, right? I mean, I think, listen, when any tragedy happens, right? The world changes, some things go back to normal, some things will never and i think i think this idea of a face to face selling that we've all you know, grown up with and done forever in these careers. I think a little that's gonna change, I see more companies saying, Hey, you know, I don't have to travel all over the globe. And, you know, a consulting buddy of mine the other day that said, he works for one of the big Four, he said, they told us, we're not going to do it anymore. We can do it remote, it's going to save them, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars in travel meals per diem, what's your take on that from a remote selling as your you talk to salespeople every day? What's your take?
Jeroen Corthout: You're exactly right there. There's a big, big incentive for companies there to not do the traveling anymore. It's just insanely expensive and not very productive. It's not just taking flights or whatever, it's also sitting in a car, from meeting to meeting, while you could be doing it all from the same place. It's just an enormous difference in productivity. Like, let's say, you know, four or five sales meetings per day Max, if you plan your day super well.
Greg Dickinson: Good. That's a lot.
Jeroen Corthout: Yeah, and you could you can easily do, if you, if you just open up slots in your calendar, and you have a meeting scheduler, I have lots of days on which my, my, my, my day is booked. So let's say 10 to 16, or something, you can do two to four times more than then then you could do if you're driving around with much less stress, so some time to get a coffee without having to get coffees in every lobby or whatever. So that the the difference in productivity is is huge. And and the costs associated with it as well. So if companies can, and they see that it's different than that it's possible and that buyers now also accepted. Why Why not keep at it? Yeah. The issue, of course, is that you're, you don't create as much as a personal relationship. Yeah, like you and I would feel feel strong about each other as humans, if we would have been doing this podcast from the same room, I suppose. Like, we would really know each other. I would say like, I've met Greg, I mean, I've met you now as well. But it's different.
Greg Dickinson: It is different. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I first of all, think this video, right? I think I think there's certain things we're become accustomed to right. Like, like, if I had never saw your face and had never kind of watched you talk and watch your mannerisms. Right, and, and so forth. I think that would be different than if we were just on a phone call. Right? I think I think that's very different. A log is not the same as digital. Right? And I think to your point, you know, buyers, you know, I learned a hard lesson at my last startup where I wanted to fly to one of the customers in Phoenix like God, you can find her if you want to, but none of us are here right there. Were all over the country anyway, we're not going to all fly into Phoenix just to have to entertain you, where you know, we have a job to do. And you know, I think the I think also technology video like this video recordings like Omedym does, people can get experience on their own and their genius, right and, and I think they're, you know, these lines of nine to five are getting kind of squashed where people may not work nine to five, they may work six to nine and then take an hour out for lunch right? There an hour off to go do something with the kids and then go back to work. I don't know, I just think that the remote sellings working and I'm able to talk to you and relate to you. And you know, I think you got to build digital trust is what we call it.
Jeroen Corthout: Yeah, exactly. And that's that's where there's probably some work to do. And in the beginning like the beginning when COVID came around. So about a year ago, we had to advise people to turn on their cameras during these kind of calls. I don't think we have to advise them on that anymore. Most people understood that this is a much better, much better way you can see each other you can actually have a conversation. Of course you still only see people chest up, you miss a part of the body language.
Greg Dickinson: There's no there's no replacing it right. I mean, I've been a pre sales engineer my entire career and there's nothing Better than, you know, being in an audience of 20, 30 people and having a you know, having a one hour two hour three doesn't matter, right and watching the the faces both good and bad, right the frowns? Well, because you can read that right and immediately, you know, go in and it's but i think i think what I see is that, that COVID has hasn't changed the motion, it's accelerated it, I think that things have been changing. And what COVID did is it kind of forced a quick reality check. And then it accelerated the fact that, hey, the buyers are digital. When you're at home, you don't necessarily go to your your local store to buy something and meet the salesperson, you do a lot of your homework on your own, then you go to them, I think the same thing is starting to happen in b2b where they do a lot of that work on their own. And then whether it's on video, like we're doing or you know, that that kind of corporate visit meeting, I think that's still gonna happen. But I think we're just it accelerated a change in behavior and technology is leading the way I mean, look, you're not even in the same time zone as me right. We coordinated made it work.
Jeroen Corthout: Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's all possible. Actually. I think. In a world where remote selling is normal, the time zone is the only remaining issue. Like if I want to find time with San Francisco, that's end of my day, usually between five and six my time. Right, right. I take calls maybe after 6 even. Yeah, when I want to call with Australia. It's the first thing in the day. Last week, I got up at 730 to talk with an Australian guy. Yeah. Why I was in front of the computer at that time. But
Greg Dickinson: Do you think Technology is gonna help right? You used, do you see like in in your company? are you all doing things from a from a from a feature and roadmap perspective that that can help? Right remote selling? Now data is even more important than ever, right? You, you, your buyer, perhaps isn't as focused, you can't get them and locked him in a room for one hour. Right. So now when you have a call? Well, you better be on point, you better be ready at your fingertips to know that, you know, Mary or john smith, right? This is what they want to know they've already researched these topics. I mean, is that what are you guys looking towards that from a sales perspective?
Jeroen Corthout: To be honest, we personally have been remote selling for six years now or something, okay. And our software was always meant for people who sell more digitally, like you said, more emails and calls and whatever, and have meetings online rather than field salespeople. Okay. So for us, it wasn't a big adaptation. We've changed some things here and there. But I mean, our software was already built for it. But we are looking to make some flows definitely a bit easier. Okay.
Greg Dickinson: Yep. Yep. So you guys as a company, you guys are starting to look at the fact that we think we've we've always built our technology to make it easy to engage in a quote unquote, I call it digital way right. Now you're doing it you're gonna continue to, to to beat that drum and add to those features. But this is not like other technologies. You're not starting from scratch going, Holy mackerel. Now, how do I deal with this? Right? You got All right, cool. Well, listen, anything else? Let me I always like to end my podcast with asking if you could give the audience some advice as to take one thing back to the office that will make them better today, or make them better tomorrow? What would that advice be one thing?
Jeroen Corthout: Ah, one thing. I think, as far as I'm concerned, successful salespeople have two things. So I'll make it two things.
Greg Dickinson: Okay. You're on.
Jeroen Corthout: One is focusing on really on empathy, really on understanding a customer, and then your context and stuff. It's very cliche, but I just get in a lot of sales conversations where I feel it's not really applied. So I like to repeat it, okay. It's just talking to someone understanding very deeply what their issues what their context is taking them as a different person than the one you've met before. really giving them that unique sort of view on on them is really important, instead of just taking a PowerPoint and then drawing it off. But secondly, really great salespeople can also scale that they don't just give that feeling to one person and give them a very personable approach. They do that at scale with many people. And that requires organization that requires building a system, you can do that in a CRM, you could do that in some other place. But at least you cannot keep fooling yourself thinking that you're going to do it based on your memory or or some kind of Notepad or whatever
Greg Dickinson: Amen to that. Listen, I I sometimes will have a call someone and then or like a a LinkedIn and then you forget why did you linkedin like, what did you meet this person, right? So I like to like I use my system as notes. I'm not that Smart and everything that happens. So that's really, really important. Hey, thank you so much for your time today and jumping on the convenience factor podcast and I'm gonna turn and you know, have a great day.
Jeroen Corthout: Thank you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai