Joe Williams, Executive Director of North American Sales at SecuPi, shares insights on how selling processes in software have not kept up with buyers' expectations. To use his exact words - "today's sales process is perfect for the customer 20 years ago." Learn what Joe thinks we should all be doing to enable the buyer to buy so we can drive more revenue for our companies!
Today's SaaS buyers expect information will be readily available just like it is when they buy household products. The easier you make it for your buyer to buy, the more educated they are, the happier they will be and the more successful you will be.
Connect:
Connect with Joe on LinkedIn and check out his SecuPi's website.
Connect with Greg on LinkedIn and check out Omedym’s website and their LinkedIn and Twitter
Greg Dickinson: Welcome, everyone to The Convenience Economy podcast today, my distinguished guest is Joe Williams, Joe. Let's get started by telling us a little bit about yourself and how we got to where we are today.
Joe Williams: I appreciate the invite Greg. And, again, I'm not so sure about the word distinguished for me in my career. But having been asked to do this, I look back and I realized I did this for 30 years. So it started less as a career and more of a job, if you will, I was interviewing for marketing positions. That's where they really wanted to do that was my background in college. And everybody told me I needed sales experience. So started selling selling copiers, which as you can imagine, is a little tough, but certainly got me interested in the competitive nature of the of the sales career. But when I moved to ADP is when it became less of a job and more of a career, or sales training program is top notch, the organization the sales culture, really got me into the career that is sales and took me to where I am today. I moved on from there to Oracle, which was my first stint in technology. And now here today I'm on my fourth pre IPO startup at a company called SecuPi, which stands for secure personal information. Now, as you know, in this world that we live in today, data, Ai, bi business intelligence, artificial intelligence is really big these days. And this security, the compliance and privacy around that data is what we do at SecuPi. So here we are.
Greg Dickinson: Here we are. So in full transparency for the audience. I've known Joe since 1998. I was a pre sales engineer at Ariba and and I naturally globbed on to the the best sales people in the organization. So Joe was one of the guys I used to do demos for and part of our deal today was Joe is not going to tell me the embarrassing stories about Greg and some of the things that he did. So we're going to continue on, but I just thought full transparency, Joe, and I used to sell some great deals together. And it was a pleasure work with Joe and being a pre sales engineer a top notch and had a lot of fun.
Joe Williams: Yeah, Greg, I think we both have some pictures and skeletons and story. So I think we have dirt on each other. But one thing I will say, Greg, what was fun is only selling into the large enterprises, you know, that business, the business environment that, you know, I grew up in and still in today, you know, we've learned a lot together, right? It's Yeah, all right.
Greg Dickinson: Sure, sure. So we both been in the b2b world for a little bit Joe kind of start off at the top right in that, you know, through the, as you said, 30 years that you've been involved in, you know, b2b, I think we could both agree that we're starting to see or we have seen, right, a change in the buyer, or you can call it the convenience buyer, the modern buyer, the Self Service buyer, but, you know, what are you seeing in the in the buyers, what you have today, you know, versus like you said, you walk through you had you had, you know, Oracle or Ariba, I also know you were at Salesforce inside sales. So kind of in those different areas. Have you seen, are you seeing a different change?
Joe Williams: Yeah, so a couple things on that, you know, the word change itself, right, as technology has changed at this exponential pace that it has the process around selling and buying has changed as well. But it's not just because of technology, right? It's the knowledge that's out there. It's the educated buyer, if you will, that's really changed. And it's interesting, because, you know, the pace of change has no really not been equal in that the buying process has changed considerably. And I don't believe the selling process has, you know, inkind changed as rapidly as it could or should have.
Greg Dickinson: Wow, that's interesting. That's interesting. So, you know, Joe, you know, there's all kinds of stats out there. And I always like to validate this with a with a real sales professional, someone's in it every day. And so we hear from you know, Forrester, Gartner that you know, X percent right, I'll leave it blank for now, X percent of the of the buyers journey is complete before they raise their hand, right to want to talk to a salesperson. What In your opinion, what is that percentage? Is it fair to say, you know, 20, 40, 50, 60, what, in your experience is that kind of watermark where you know that that buyer you're talking to today has done a lot of the homework on their own, as opposed to right, 20 years ago, they had to go to jail for everything.
Joe Williams: Not opinion, right? There's factual information out there. And my prior employer inside sales now known as an.AI, they're sitting on a ton of data. And when I say that, it's data around the selling process, the buying process, sales progression, so how you go from like, you know, an interested person or suspect all the way through to a qualified lead to a sale, and the data that they're sitting on tells us very distinctly 67% of the buying process is completed. Or engaged before they ever talk to a sales professional today. So think about that stat. I mean, no, I think when I first started in sales, the role of a salesperson was to be in front of a customer, educating them on something they knew little about, you know, they relied on a sales professional to teach them to educate them. Today, through the clicker swipe of my thumb or finger on this computer I have in my pocket, I can find out a lot of information about what you're selling, how you're selling your competitors, your price, the value, you know, just the social optic, you know, the does everybody like your product or not, I can get that without ever listening to any sales professional.
Greg Dickinson: Yeah, I think that's that's really, you know, astute of you right, in critical because I think about, you know, there's lots of conversations about the fact that you know, that the internet makes the salesperson smarter, right. And yet people forget to think about the fact that, guess what, right? The buyer smarter as well, when you and I were together to Reba 1998, that one to some of those large companies. They, they had to talk to you and I right, no one knew anything. There's no place to learn anything about Ariba except through Joe and through Greg right. And now, as you're saying, 66/67%, that number, right is astonishing. Joe, as you know, you've been in the business a long time, right? So clearly you there's been other changes that have happened in the industry, and you had to adapt as a sales leader, because you've been a sales leader, you've been a, you know, an individual contributor, you've done them all right? What are you doing to kind of embrace that change? Because if you didn't embrace the change, you'd be out of this job, right? You'd be out of this out of this world of selling. So what are you what are some of the things you're doing a little bit differently in order to embrace that change? I know you are.
Joe Williams: Yeah, it's interesting to say that because you know, the best sales professionals are chameleon like, and I don't mean that in a negative way. I mean, that in a way that they change, according to what their environment is, it's more Darwinian, if you will, you know, the best, you know, the fittest survive, meaning, you know, how do you fit into this environment. And, you know, go back to what my father told me years ago, you have two ears and one mouth, listen twice as much as you talk. And the point is, is if you listen, the data will tell you what you need to do. And today, buyers are listening through the data, all the information on slot that they have access to, on the supply, excuse me, sales side, I don't believe we as professionals have listened as much as we should have, or are starting to now, right, where it's not just the technical changes that are out there, there's a shift in power, that the buyer is no longer reliant upon a salesperson to be that confidant to that, you know, that specialist, if you will, on the front, there is still absolutely a role for the sales professional, but it's further down the funnel, if you will, it's further down in the process. And it also means that you better bring something to the table, right? Like, you know, the days of having a clever way of breaking into a sea level or have any unique, you know, value proposition, you know, that's just based on some market texture. That's not the way people are spending their time now. So you have to listen, and you have to learn from the information that's being provided to sales professionals.
Greg Dickinson: Boy, that's gospel right there. I mean, that's, that that statement is so true, is that it two ears, and one mouth and the fact that you're, you know, your salespeople, if you're your buyer, right, you need to bring something to the table. And you know, because what we're what we see Joe law right Omedym is all about helping the buyer buy right and helping you know, that that that that first part of that 67% of the journey, how do you help that and we see, you know, the the MAR tech and the sales tech space is very, very crowded, but they're all crowded with trying to ring the next ouncer you know, 1.4% productivity out of the salesperson when, in essence, what we're seeing is that the buyer, right, if they want things on demand, no opt in no scheduling, they want to digital, they want to learn, you know, the digital self serving way. And we see a lot of video, right? And in the world of the buyer wanting to you're going to buy software, if you're going to buy certain things, right? You want to watch it, you want to see it, you want to feel it, you want to pretend that you're using that. Have you seen any of your where you are now or other places that you know, buyers come to you and they've they've watched some video about you know about the technology and that helped them to understand and maybe get that top where that they used to come to you, you know about we're now that they've learned that on their own. Now they're going to get into the nitty gritty, like you said, engage with you, but in a much deeper way.
Joe Williams: Yeah, there's a couple of points I want to make on what you just said, because, you know, you talked about single digit, you know, 1.4%, think about all the onslaught of information you get in your email on your phone, if you listen to less than, you know, that single digit percentage, right, like a lot of it's just noise in the system. And I think a lot of the marketing executives still are hanging on to that, well, we need to do a mass mailing or you know, we need to do these kind of, you know, account based marketing, right, you know, they talk about this, these programs that really have single digit returns at best. Whereas if If you look towards the b2c environment on the consumer side of things, we've learned in the enterprise space, that people's experience in a personal, social and unique way, are bleeding into the business department. What do I mean by that? I on a daily basis, whether I'm at home with my kids or doing something, you know, I learned through the internet through video every day, it's a very easy way for me to get an understanding about a product or, you know, a situation or a question I have. And you know, as opposed to reading reams of information, video is just a really convenient way. And by the way, I can get that video on my phone, I don't have to sit down in front of a computer being in business environment, I think, you know, with Omedym, and when you guys came to me about three years ago, and talk about what you're doing, I was excited, because it's like, this is what we've been doing in our personal lives for years. Like, look at your kids, you know, they're watching video every day. And it's not just a fun thing. They're learning through video, I'm doing things from a home improvement perspective through video, why wouldn't we do that in the business world, and back to that value prop of where the business, no buyer experience has changed greatly and the sales experience hasn't, we need to start selling through video, meaning, relinquish that control up front, give buyers that power that they already have. And be transparent about what you're doing in a, you know, a one to two minute video, you're going to get a lot further down that path that funnel than if you're trying to make somebody authenticate based on an email with a login to your website, which everybody is going to go through and abandon pretty quickly. Yeah,
Greg Dickinson: Yeah, I see that right. I mean, you know, me, I'm a hobbyist at home, I do woodworking and I work on the on the farm. And gosh, there's so many new things, I have no idea, you know, how it how it's supposed to be done, or how it works. And I turn to YouTube. And that's why the stats show that 68% of all YouTube searches start with the words how to because if we want to see how something works, gosh, would you rather read a 42 page manual? How to put the gas pedal together? Or would you rather watch a video on how to do it and be able to get to the section where you know, somebody understands how you don't? Right. And I think that's what you're saying is that we right consume, you know, video, but I want to move to something else you just said and I think is really, really important. And that is that what we hear, right? In Omedym, we're trying to change behavior. We're trying to get people to use, you know, more of the of the technology that we have. But a lot of sales professionals come back and say, Wow, you know, Greg, we hear what you're talking about. But I'm a sales professional. And I need to build the relationship, I need to control that, you know, that buyer and Joe, you said relinquish control. So it sounds like you come to accept that the buyers changed. Therefore you have to make a change. One of the changes you've made is that, hey, let them do some stuff on their own. Let me build up that trust by giving them the information that they want. And then they'll come to me when they're ready to engage. Is that a is that a true?
Joe Williams: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And in my former employment, again, with inside sales in you know, we talk about the selling process, and we talk to sales professionals everyday there, right? Most sales professionals, unfortunately, are resistant to change, you know, they're very comfortable doing their spreadsheet forecast on a weekly basis or quarterly basis, and what have you. And the sales, people that they manage, are very comfortable doing things in a certain way. And it is all about comfort and, you know, with, with the buying process that has changed, you need to embrace the fact that, guess what, they're going to do it anyhow. So if you're holding on to an old way of selling, if an old way of engagement is giving you comfort, all you're doing is ignoring the fact that you're alienating or, you know, missing all of the prospects that you could be engaging in consulting, and educating through other channels such as video. Yeah, again, I think about it my personal life, Greg, if I go to a website search, and I'm looking for something specific, the companies that are reluctant to give me that information, or worse yet, are asking me to authenticate and give you my personal information before they'll give me an answer. I don't argue with I don't try to engage further, I just swipe left, and I go to the next one. And once I get to the vendor, or the company that's comfortable enough to say, here's the information you're looking for now, can we help you further down that path? They're the ones I trust, they're the ones I engage? So I put that back into the business firm. I talk to sales professionals, like why wouldn't you do the same with your company or product in a business performing? Yeah, given what they're looking for? Be educational, be consultative, give them that quick hit answer. And they're going to remember that, right? That's what I'm saying. relinquish control and give it back to the buyer because they're going to take it anyhow. Yeah.
Greg Dickinson: And it's that trust, right. It's kind of in our personal lives, right? You just hit the nail on the head, right? That car dealer that's answering the questions for you and in a digital way on demand about that. That new vehicle you're looking at when the day comes that you're ready to buy because we know darn well that everyone in the market is not buying today. But when the day comes that you're ready to buy, where are you going to go first to the purchase That's it. Oh, yeah, yeah, come and see me sit this desk, go through the Inquisition have all the information of are you qualified to buy blah, blah, blah, then we'll tell you the data or the one that just says, yo, here's your answer. Eventually, you'll get to the point where you're like, Hey, I'm getting ready to buy a car, let me give that guy first opportunity to work with me, because that's they've, they've established trust. I think that's the key that that the inner, you know, that the convenience economy is establishing is that that kind of on demand digital world, so I couldn't agree with you more. Hey, just a couple more topics here, we're gonna run out of time. So the next thing I want to ask your opinion on, right is that we also see that the buying teams, right, are larger dates, more consensus buying then heck 20 years ago, and you and I are selling, we got to the decision maker, and you know, you got the decision maker. And that was what the job was right to influence a decision makers, they made a decision. I think today that's changed, there's more people involved in the buying process, is that what you're seeing?
Joe Williams: Absolutely, and again, back to this stats that I had from the Fire Company, on average, and enterprise decision isn't made without seven to 10 people involved in that decision, that is a much more complex environment. Because you think about the different levels, you know, there'll be people that are lower level that may be, you know, influencers, but not buyers. But at the same time, those influencers are important because people are buying by committee. So it's harder for a salesperson to understand that. But again, when we get back to the convenience economy, you're talking about, you know, if you provide a video, if you provide them a very quick way that can get amplified through an organization very quickly, right. So I'm not going to send somebody in my organization, a long, lengthy wordy, email, you know, or even some kind of architecture. But if there's a, you know, 30 to 90 second clip, that tells me, you know, what I wanted to hear, i'll forward that around to these other 15 or 20 people with my organization. So I think video plays a large role in that. And again, because there's so many more people, it actually gives you better reach than if you were trying to do it on and on on a one off basis.
Greg Dickinson: Yeah, yeah. Because I think what you know, what we see right now, but again, I'm in software, right? Is that the buying team of the of the Fortune 500 that I'm selling to? Yeah, there's 10, or 12 of you, as you mentioned, Joe, but I don't meet them all, I get to meet two or three, right? And I get very little of their time, right, I don't get 90% of their time I get like 10% of their buying cycle, and then I get zero percent of the people I had, I don't even know are part of the team. And I think, you know, it sounds like you've come to accept that I know, you sell a security product. Gosh, darn, there's no way one person makes a security decision at a large company. When it comes to PII and personal data and encryption, there must those keys must be massive. And that makes it harder for you, unless you figure out a way to reach right, those anonymous ones that are influencing your deal, but you don't know they're there.
Joe Williams: Yeah, it's interesting, you know, just real quick on SecuPi in that regard. Everybody needs it. So it's not like, you know, who doesn't need this? It's like a life preserver on that Titanic, it's, it's not a one or would like to have it's a need, you know, people have to secure their data. The question is, is where are they on the educational front of knowing what they have and what they don't have. And that's where we consult. That's where we provide a lot of information upfront out of the, you know, it's a cliche, but our best consumer is an educated buyer, the more they know about their situation, the more they know about the market, the better, you know, they are at being a qualified opportunity for us.
Greg Dickinson: Fantastic. So Joe, when I started thinking about Omedym, almost three years ago, I was driving I remember the day that like it was yesterday. And I said you're not going to call Joe Williams because Joe's a really experienced person in that field, I want to ask Joe a question. And I was talking to you about my idea. And you said the following you said today's sales process is perfect for the customer 20 years ago, what did you mean by that?
Joe Williams: What I said early on is because of all this access to information and the way in which people in their personal lives are able to self educate and even self qualify, whether they're a you know, a prospect or not for a certain product or service that's bled into the business world where the buying process has significantly changed because of access to this information, and what people are very comfortable with. And the selling process has, right you know, having an electronic system like a CRM to track all the information didn't change what I'm tracking, or how I'm tracking it, or worse yet, how I'm managing the sales professional. So I think companies like Omedym are helping, you know, shed the light on how that can really be impactful. And not only, you know, make you more efficient and more efficient, but actually a better experience for your buying community. Right? They're going to be happier with your company, because you volunteer the information they need to see what they want to see. And with Omedym and you're providing that organization back signals into what their buying community is asking for or not asking for. And it allows you to pivot left to right based on that data, that Omedym is going to provide back to them. I think that's invaluable and that'll change your selling process based on data based on, you know, really valuable information.
Greg Dickinson: Great. Thanks for that. That was perfect. Hey, Joe. So I like to end all my podcasts right with, you know, the audience. Hopefully they learned a lot, right? You're you brought a lot of good points up today. But if there's one thing, right one thing you could still to the audience that maybe some of your junior reps, maybe they're just getting started heck, maybe they're, you know, as experienced as you and I, and they want to learn one thing new, give me yet Give me that give my audience that,
Joe Williams: It's got to be two things for me, I'm sorry, I can't do one. But first and foremost, be genuine. There's a sales trainer out there named Barry Ryan, he talks about being genuine, genuinely curious. And I just leave it as just be genuine. If you're asking questions, or you're inquiring or trying to get in front of a customer, people can tell if you're, you know, laying down to some kind of psychic versus, you know, a factual request for information because you're genuinely interested, be genuine. And the second thing I'd say is, know your customer. And when I say that, if you think about the different people you're talking to in their organization, each one is a customer. But each one has a different motivation behind them, right? There's coaches there, see levels, and there's people in between each person is a different person, treat them uniquely know your customer, right. And that can be internal and external. And like I can say, it's across the continuum of people you speak to each one's different, know your customer. And that will dictate how you interact with that person. And if you do it in a genuine way, that always carry the day.
Greg Dickinson: So that's why Joe Williams is successful wherever he goes, right? It's because even though things have changed, that hasn't changed, Joe was genuine back and then in the 90s, when I worked with him, and he's genuine today, and he's generous with his time here today. So Joe, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast. I'm going to wrap it up here. Thanks so much and appreciate you taking the time out of your busy day to get on the Convenience Economy podcast.
Joe Williams: It was a pleasure grant All the best.
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